Earlier this month, neurosurgeon Michael Egnor appeared on the Will Spencer Podcast in connection with his new book The Immortal Mind: (Worthy, June 3, 2025), co-authored with Denyse O’Leary.

Spencer describes the show as “a weekly interview show featuring extended discussions with authors, leaders, and influencers who can help us make sense of our changing world today.”

One topic that came up was how Egnor responds to fellow neurosurgeons who are materialists:

From the podcast:

Michael Egnor: [1:05:24] Neurosurgeons aren’t particularly materialists. Um I mean there certainly are. There are some that are, for sure. But, I mean, there many very devout Christians and Jews and Muslims, people who are very serious about their faith, who are neurosurgeons.

I think of neurosurgeons very much, at least in this sense, as almost like engineers, in a sense that it’s an applied science. You have to take the scientific ideas and make them work in the real world.

You can’t just live in this abstract world of theories because if you if you get the science wrong in neurosurgery, you kill people. So you’ve got to get the science right.

So neurosurgeons are a little less tolerant of crazy theories. And materialism is, quite honestly a crazy theory.

So there are a lot of neurosurgeons who agree with me. I’m not the only neurosurgeon who thinks this. Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon, wrote a book about his own near-death experience, Proof of Heaven (2012). [added]

And there are many neurosurgeons who are very devout people. Ben Carson is a very devout Christian who was a neurosurgeon.

Where you really find most of the materialists and the atheists is in the neurosciences, in the basic sciences. And part of that may be to just it just attracts people who tend to think along those lines. Part of it is that if you’re a basic scientist and your career depends on getting grants and getting papers published, you are going to have a tough time professionally if you express Christian views, if you express a belief in the soul.

Materialists can be awfully nasty people and you can professionally suffer quite a bit by coming out as someone who believes in the spiritual soul, who believes in God, who believes in Christ — is not good for your career in some of the basic sciences.

In pursuit of a free debate

Will Spencer: [1:07:27] It’s incredible what a lack of transcendent morality will allow people’s consciences to do when they don’t believe.

Michael Egnor: Right. Absolutely. And what’s really funny is that — and I’ve noticed this repeatedly with materialists and atheists on on this issue — is that they will engage in debate a little bit, but ultimately they just want to censor you. That is they they just want to shut you up.

And I have never seen anybody on the intelligent design or Christian side of things of this debate that we’re having now want to censor the other side. That is, I want the materialists free range. I want to hear what they have to say. I want to hear their arguments. I just want to be able to respond to their arguments.

So the people in the Discovery Institute want intellectual freedom. They want the people to have the ability to tell the truth as they see it and to discuss these issues in the scientific realm and the the philosophical realm openly without fear of censure and without fear of Cancellation. Yeah, that seems to be the thing. Like we can, from the Christian side, we can have an open debate. But on the materialist side, the Christian perspective cannot be allowed.

We welcome debate. Nothing I love more than talking about this with people who disagree with me because actually those are very interesting conversations. The problem that we encounter so much in the intelligent design discussions and in discussions of the immateriality of the human soul is that our opponents often try to shut us up rather than engage us.

Although that’s not always the case. There are many materialists and atheists who are willing to talk and that’s to their credit. But there are many who just try to censor us.

Will Spencer: Maybe you can talk a little bit about why materialism is a crazy theory. I [1:09:43] happen to agree with you, but I’d like to hear more about that.

To hear Mike Egnor on why materialism is a crazy theory, pick up the conversation in the video above at 1:09:43.

You may also wish to read: Science Dilemma: Bucking the trend and searching for truth. Neurosurgeon Michael Egnor tells host Allan CP about the risks scientists face if they say that human beings have souls. The discussion touched on many areas covered by the new book, The Immortal Mind, but one scientist’s dilemma really stood out.