In a compelling and wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Robert J. Marks and neurosurgeon Dr. Michael Egnor explore the profound connections between faith, science, and the moral structure of the universe.

Drawing from the foundations of Western science and Christian philosophy, their dialogue offers a deeply thoughtful perspective on why laws of nature, moral imperatives, and even joy itself may all point to something beyond material reality.

The discussion centers around Dr. Egnor’s new book, The Immortal Mind, co-authored with Denyse O’Leary.

Dr. Marks opens the discussion by highlighting how many of the founders of modern science were passionate Christians who believed that just as God gave moral laws, He also imbued creation with natural laws. Dr. Egnor affirms this view, wondering why anyone would expect lawfulness in nature without a rational Creator behind it.  

Moral law and universal truths

The conversation soon turns to moral law. Dr. Egnor recounts a debate with atheist Matt Dillahunty, in which Dillahunty denied the existence of objective moral truths. When asked whether it is ethical to rape a baby, Dillahunty struggled to answer — highlighting a lack of what Egnor sees as an undeniable moral intuition that points to a transcendent moral lawgiver.

Historical insights from revolutions

Dr. Marks brings up economist Thomas Sowell’s insights, comparing the American and French Revolutions. According to Sowell, the American Revolution succeeded largely because it retained a Christian framework that recognized human fallenness, necessitating checks and balances. The French Revolution, by contrast, descended into chaos after the revolutionaries rejected the Church, believing that simply installing the “right” leader would suffice.

Evidence and the search for God

From there, the dialogue shifts to the nature of evidence for God’s existence. Dr. Marks shares that while faith filled the God-shaped vacuum in his heart, he sought intellectual corroboration. Citing Stephen Hawking (1942‒2018), he notes that physics never truly proves anything but rather accumulates evidence.

Dr. Egnor builds on this, arguing that the existence of God can and should be approached as a scientific question — an inference to the best explanation based on cumulative evidence.

Aquinas and the Five Ways

Dr. Egnor then outlines the famous “Five Ways” of demonstrating the existence of God provided by Catholic philosopher Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274). The first four depend on the impossibility of an infinite regress of causes or changes, ultimately pointing to an uncaused cause — God. The fifth way argues from the consistent behavior of natural laws, which points to the existence of a guiding mind. These arguments, Egnor says, are scientific in form and unmatched in evidential support.

Anselm, Gödel, and logical reflections

Dr. Marks raises the ontological argument of Anselm of Canterbury (1033–1109) and notes how twentieth-century mathematician Kurt Gödel (1906–1978) reformulated it mathematically:

Though Aquinas rejected the ontological argument underlying this calculation because it is purely logical and divorced from existential input, the two scholars agree that it remains a fascinating contribution to theology and logic.

Faith, healing, and a personal testimony

The dialogue closes on a personal note. Dr. Marks references Egnor’s testimony in The Immortal Mind about his son, who recovered from apparent autism following prayer. It is a reminder of how the spiritual can profoundly impact the physical.

However, Egnor warns against treating prayer as a transaction, likening God to a vending machine. Instead, he describes faith as a deep relationship — one that may not always yield happiness about life circumstances. Rather, it fosters lasting joy, independent of circumstances.

Joy beyond circumstances

Dr. Marks concludes the episode with the words of Christ from John 16:33: “Be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.” It’s a fitting end to a conversation that bridges intellect and spirit, reason and revelation — and invites listeners to pursue not just truth, but meaning.

As always, Marks ends the podcast with this encouragement: “Until next time on Mind Matters News, be of good cheer.”